Saturday, 15 September 2012

  • Freedom to insult ?


    Earlier today I posted asking something related to freedom of speech..

    Just wondering...

    In the context of freedom of speech, does the libel laws, product defamation laws, hate speech laws, noise pollution, etc, contradict the concept of freedom of speech?


    and thank you for those that commented on that post...

    Looking on the topic of "freedom of speech", it seems to me that it does carry the connotation that one can freely express whatever one wants...   especially when the line "freedom of speech" is being used by someone defending their rights to say whatever they want to say...

    But do we really have the rights to say whatever it is that we want to say, without any boundary or limit?

    Taking the libel laws, product defamation laws, hate speech laws, etc, it directly implies that we don't actually have the ultimate rights to say whatever it is that we want to say, right?

    In other words, there are boundaries within which we are free to speak, but there are also lines that we can't cross..

    But where's the line?

    What about insult?

    Do we have the freedom to insult?

    From the way some people defend their actions with "freedom of speech" banner, it seems that some people do believe that freedom to insult is implied within the concept of freedom of speech...


    Perhaps we should ask a more fundamental question...

    What is the basis or foundation for freedom of speech to begin with?

    Sometimes these kind of questions need to be asked, and the answer to it need to be understood...

    Because, IF, say, it is being upheld upon the basis that we want to avoid any voice of reason from being suppressed, being shut down, so that the good of the people is ultimately protected, then the way people are taking "freedom of speech" in such a way that is basically disruptive for the people at large, then it kind of defeating the very purpose....   isn't it?

    That is just an example of how not understanding why a certain principle being put in place can actually lead to the damage that we want to avoid in the first place...

    People can end up using that slogan to defeat its very purpose, basically...   so to speak..

    So...    What's the underlying fundamental behind "freedom of speech"?

    I wonder how many people have the answer to that...


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Comments (17)

  • GaijinWords
    I think it would be good thing to think of "inappropriate speaking" in similar terms to that which we attach to "inappropriate touching". There seem to be those of a certain mindset that just insult others as a matter of course. If you don't understand it, then insult it!
    Then, of course, there are others who use insult as a weapon to hurt, incite reaction or just bring others down.
  • GaijinWords
    I think also that "freedom of speech" should only be allocated to those with the prerequisite qualification of "freedom to be responsible".
  • TheSutraDude
    "But where's the line." that is the question. i also believe that with freedom of speech and freedom in general comes responsibility. words can hurt and some fling them irresponsibly out of fear and hatred and others, just for kicks. even on Xanga we probably all know of at least one person who shut down their site or put themselves on friend's lock because of unwarranted attacks against them. so where are the rights to free speech for those people?

    it is against the law to yell "fire!" in a theater when there is no fire because of the possibility of hazard, people trampling on one another. the video that I'm guessing prompted this post incited anger that led to the killing of a U.S. Ambassador and 3 others at the Embassy as well as 11 Libyans who tried to protect them. to me that is worse than yelling fire in a theater.

    it seems libel and hate speech laws are non-existent.
  • dw817
    No-one can make you feel inferior without your consent. Φ ≡

    How you present yourself to others though can also have a strong bearing on the way they feel about you, however.
  • Nushirox2

    I think the freedom of speech should include freedom to insult. Personally.


    I thnk freedom should be there for freedom's sake. I don't think there's much that's more important.
  • Alcohol_Fuelled
    Some individuals or a group of individuals created 2 anti-Dusun pages on Facebook with the aim to insult the Dusun community from Sabah, Malaysia. These idiots are too stupid to know that Dusun is one of the largest ethnic group with their own sub groups. Naturally these people made police reports.

    There is insult and there is harassment. Know the difference.
  • CanuckFascist
    If you have boundaries to your 'freedom of speech', then the very term 'freedom of speech' is itself an oxymoron. I have known this since I was a child, which is why I adopted fascism. Many people attack my chosen ideology, whereupon I throw their own lack of rights back into their faces. I have mocked the US Constitution for a long time, since it is so contradictory that it amuses me.
  • CanuckFascist
    @dw817 - 

    If one is capable of making you feel inferior at all, then the problem lies with you, not the other.
  • CanuckFascist
    @Alcohol_Fuelled - 

    You kid me. A group was 'insulted' and they called the police? Are you fucking serious? You see what liberalism has wrought, my children? Whiny fucks everywhere.
  • Grannys_Place
    Such a fine line. We all yell about freedom of speech but when what we are saying destroys others where does the line get drawn. I have no answers for any of this and do not believe we really do have freedom of speech.
    Example-My husband is dependent on the VA for medical and has severe, critical medical problems. A couple of his drs have been awful and have crossed ethical lines. He complained to a patient advocate and none of the others drs would see him. Where is the freedom of speech there.
    This was several years ago and enough patients complained and those drs were fired and he got another set of drs and that kind of crap has not happened again, but it was proof that some times freedom of speech can really screw with a person when they choose to use that right.
    Sorry got off of the topic and on my soap box.
  • f5ye_angel5
    My teacher had said that KKK has the right to exist, they just can't throw out threats of murder.

    But I was thinking, isn't their very existence a threat to every ethnic group, and Catholics here in US? so they should be at least monitored.
  • AlwaysMeForeverSmiling
    I just say what I want to say with the understanding that there may be consequences to it. No one is keeping me from initially speaking my mind, but the after math is something I have to realize could be there. I will always speak my mind, no matter what. If I get into trouble, I will accept any and all consequences. I'll still say the same thing again if I had to! The penalty for speaking your mind is as bad as some other countries where you can be killed for what you say! Or words can be considered treason! So I think I am lucky that I can still live and breath and say whatever I want. What's the worse they can do? Throw me in jail? I'll just be speaking those same words in my jail cell. Those are my thoughts on this :)
  • Fatcat723
    Responsibility comes with any freedom. Freedom demands we respect the freedom of others which may at time call for voluntarily putting limits on our freedom.
  • rajeev_nomad
    Have you ever seen some really weak(by power or by position) insulting strong person (muscle strong or power strong)??
    the underlying fundamental behind freedom of speech- speak whatever or insult...who cant' harm you or is weaker than you.

    The same people don't dare to speak out loud or insult someone stronger than them. It's all bout power/strength/position. Hierarchy is there & world goes like this.
  • Alcohol_Fuelled
    @CanuckFascist - 
    Read the news:

    http://www.dailyexpress.com.my/news.cfm?NewsID=82528

    Oh yes I am fucking serious. Ask the politicians and the police themselves right now. This thing is ALL OVER THE FACEBOOK, INTERNET AND NEWSPAPERS. I guess you totally missed it all.

    Before you insult any Malaysian, read history books and news about Malaysia first.

    Dusun is NOT a group. Dusun is an ETHNIC group with its own sub groups : I'm saying thousands and thousands of individuals. You want to insult a certain ethnic group in Malaysia? Get ready to face the law and the tribal courts.
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  • Aloysius_son

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


    I guess we have the right to say what ever we want. Of course that leaves us open to attack by others who also have the same right. It is not the spoken word that gets us into legal trouble, but the recorded word.

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